To Plea or not to Plea…
That is the question…
It seems some people claim to have inside information about the Kocis case. It would be interesting to find out for a fact if someone directly involved in the case is actually leaking information to certain bloggers.
Seem since the case is in the hands of the court and the court has issued a gag order to the attorneys, it would simply not be possible for bloggers to have inside information. Now granted our criminal justice system has problems and it would not be much of a surprise if someone has given out the “inside” information. But it seems in this case there is not a lot of information being passed out to anyone following this particular case.
Why does the State accept a plea bargain in any case to begin with?
I think one of the most prevalent reasons is the lack of evidence. If the State cannot prove what they have assumed happened in court, then it would benefit the State to accept a plea. Granted they may know some facts of a case, but they cannot meet the burden of proof required in court so it benefits the State to make that deal with the accused. When the State adds multiple charges and increases the penalty they are seeking it almost forces most to think they only way out is a plea. Not to mention the money saved by the State because of the plea. No expert witnesses, no jury and no long drawn out trial. It’s always beneficial when the State lacks physical evidence in a case to accept a plea.
This case is no different, they believe they have the responsible persons in jail for the crime but when you read the actual arrest affidavit, it lacks a lot of evidence that is going to be required to obtain a conviction in a court of law.
Not once has the State said who is responsible for the actual death of Bryan. No evidence has been presented thus far by the State stating this person killed Bryan. Now some people scream it does not matter, they are both responsible. I think this way of thinking can go right back to 641,000 arrest and only 165,000 convictions. The State does have the responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt all aspects of the crime to the jury.
Not once has the State even placed Harlow and Joe at the crime scene. Not one witness that testified at the preliminary could positively identify Harlow or Joe.
The most positive statement was there was a light colored SUV with a third break light seen at the scene.
Now we have people screaming about Joe’s statement. I know I’m easily confused sometimes but this still confuses me on a regular basis. They claim Harlow and Joe are habitual liars and when their lips move they are telling another lie. But now we have people that want to believe Joe’s courtroom statement as the God’s honest truth. Some days it’s hard to follow the spin some continuously add to every detail of this case. Of course then add the spin of they only lie in public, well wait… this was for the media it would seem it was pretty public. So according to the spin we should believe this to be a lie but now they think Joe told the truth. Aggggggggg…
We now have those claiming the FBI had that federal warrant the night of the arrest. There has been nothing documented anywhere of federal charges at this time. Could the Federal System step in and bring new charges? Sure they could. Anything is possible.
Now of course we have some that has spun the facts into Harlow and Joe was a fugitive the night of the crime. One little issue with this statement, there has to be a warrant before someone can be a fugitive by legal definition. The facts of the matter are the crime was committed on 01/24/2007 and according to the arrest affidavit it was not filed until 05/15/07. Sort of blows that theory right out of the water.
Now we have people posting there have been no updates to court docket. It almost seems as some have taken the inactivity of the dockets to try to spin matters into Harlow is going to take a plea. Wonder if anyone was smart enough to ask if the case files have been sealed by the court until trial. Then of course there would be no activity showing up on the docket. I seriously doubt anyone making any new claim or accusation has taken the time to research anything they are posting as fact.
Of course we have ole reliable, “an unidentified reliable source”. Well I think at some point and time we need an actual identifiable reliable source. This would actually require effort on the part of some bloggers, so again, this will never happen. Of course we will not know the truth of this case until the trial takes place. Bloggers will continue to speculate and present speculations as fact to keep that crowd following the blogs.
We are all entitled to our own opinion of what has happened and why it happened and what the end results will be. I, of course, never see anyone following this case coming to any sensible factual conclusions of what actually happened and why.
So the question of the hour is to plea or not to plea.
Is Harlow taking a plea? I don’t know and honestly don’t care. Harlow is a smart guy and has attorneys on his side to help guide him through this process. Regardless of what any blogger thinks, it really makes no difference. Harlow’s life is on the line and regardless of what Harlow does I will support whatever choice he makes. Overall his choices in life mean absolutely nothing to anyone following this case unless you are family.
Only one problem with the plea bargaining issue, Harlow still claims to be innocent.
None of us knows what is going on right now and probably will not know anything happening until the pre-trial hearing. Thanks to the great secrecy of the criminal justice system.
14 comments:
very good post and I agree with all of it.
Thanks Elm
Hi Boys--
Just hate to blow the mutual admiration society and Harlow is innocent fan club, but what the Hell, someone has to do it.
Jakester whines about circumstantial evidence being used against suspects. It is a fact of the judicial system.
You and Elm make the mistake of equating the affidavit with the charges being brought against the defendants at trial. The affidavit supporting the arrest warrant is simply that, the statement of probable cause that obtains the judge's signature for the arrest warrant to take the named individuals into police custody. It is not meant to be detailed or as precise as the Bill of Particulars used at trial against the defendants.
As to Jakester's statement, "We now have those claiming the FBI had that federal warrant the night of the arrest." I did write that the Pennsylvania State Police made the request for Federal assistance. The PA authorities were certainly granted that request.
As to behind the scenes legal maneuvers Harlow's defense team may be engaged in or not, I believe the following Prosecution developments are telling. I quote, "the district attorney’s office is seeking the death penalty against both men." Furthermore, "the district attorney’s office also wants to present evidence at the jury trial about Cuadra and Kerekes’ attempts to provide false alibis to deflect blame in the case." Now this is a telling point. Elm swore up and down in his blog that Harlow was banging, or being banged, by a john on the night of Bryan Kocis' murder.
It seems the Prosecution has witnesses and evidence to the contrary, the nonexistent john notwithstanding. Thus, Harlow's story gets more convoluted because “[Harlow and Joe's] plan to commit murder did not end with homicide, but continued thereafter when they attempted to cover up their crime by soliciting individuals to provide law enforcement investigators with false information as to where Defendant Harlow Raymond Cuadra was on Jan. 24, 2007 (the day of Kocis’ death),” detailed in the prosecutors' separate motion that was filed with the court.
Lastly, your innocent, Snow White, Harlow seems to have a pattern of criminality in his background. Thus, "[the prosecution] want[s] to show evidence that Cuadra and Kerekes: burglarized Kocis’ home; ran an escort service and illegal prostitution service; approached individuals to ask them to give police false information about their whereabouts the day Kocis died; and destroyed some of Kocis’ personal property."
Perhaps either one or both of you would take a breather from singing Harlow's praises and explain the above. And spare me the simplistic "Well for sure. It's the Prosecution saying this so there is nothing to it." The problem with that is the news accounts clearly indicate there has been additional investigation since Harlow and Joe's arrest on capital murder charges.
The most troubling aspect is the attempt to obstruct justice by contriving and causing others to contrive FAKE ALIBIS. Do explain.
Hey Rob,
You are correct, circumstantial evidence is a part of the judicial system. Maybe that would account for the 641,000 arrests and 165,000 convictions -- 90 percent obtained by plea bargaining.
My only point about the FBI is that you keep claiming this all happened the night of the murder. That is not true. There was no fugitive warrant issued. Heck there was not even an arrest warrant until months later.
Lastly, your innocent, Snow White, Harlow seems to have a pattern of criminality in his background. Maybe while Harlow is in jail he can take a class and learn how to be more like Sean. Lie and stay out of jail.
Seems the Prosecution has lost yet another key witness. Now they have to depend on Sean and Grant.
I would hope the State has done more investigations. It would also seem that the State would want to prove the history of the suspects during trial. Of course some information cannot be presented in court, but overall the DA has to paint a picture to the jury.
As far as trying to get some alibi, I dont know anything about that. I have never said anything about that. So I'm not sure what you want me to say about that.
If anyone has facts mixed up Rob it would apper to be you. You claim Elm and I both think the two are innocent and we are blogging to prove they are. The fact of the matter is, we both believe they are entitled to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
I have never posted my personal opinions of this case. Not one place could you read that I have said they are innocent.
All Harlow has ask for on his blog was to be given a fair trial and not to be judged prior to trial.
I do support that. I support that belief for anyone, not just Harlow.
Like it or not, just because there has been arrest or the DA still continues to investigate this case
does not mean they are correct in what they assumed. The DA has his theory and will work to prove that theory. He may or may not know all of the details. I will look for the numbers to show the number of arrest compaired to the number of convictions of recent years. That within itself proves beyond any doubt there is some problems with what the DA assumes to be correct.
You can scream whatever you want, It will not change anything here.
A friend asked for help and I will help. He asked not to be judged prior to trial and I be damned if I will judge him.
Please forgive my momentary hijacking
of this thread.
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Jakester--
Not to seem callous but you were using the after sexual liasion statements of presumed Harlow johns because these people have obviously only seen the side of Harlow they were paying for sexual favors and servicing which doesn't mean that Harlow could not come across as a terrific companion; however, those johns weren't paying him to be a vicious killing fiend. Harlow's escorting, and providing the sexual favors that entails, is a contrived situation nonetheless.
As to the Federal Wants and Warrants, they were there. Harlow and Joe were not as clever as you give them credit for. Hence, their respective keisters occupy jail cells awaiting a criminal court trial on capital murder charges.
As to your claim of my misstatements, I consider the source of the remark, am not impressed, and rely on my consistency. And least I forget, Elm has a direct stake in the outcome as he was in communication with the grifting con boobs while they were on the run, fleeing justice. Has he decided whether they fled to Hawaii or to Florida? I do know the answer to this question so save the spin.
Hey Jakester--
Downtown, Florida, USA. That's a good one! Your IP traces to California and near the La Jolla area. Almost makes one wonder if you are Lee Bergeron. But then, Bergeron likes to stay in the shadows. He's clever that way. Likes to cheat his business partners and not pay them for their work or their interest in going concerns.
Rob,
Maybe you need to check your IP traacker. I live in St Petersburg, FL. Not CA... Get something right...
“Rely on my consistency”....
Well that’s interesting to say the least. Your consistency and changing statements or changing the meaning of statements has confused many people several times.
The only thing consistent here, is there is no consistency. Except the fact that you make a lot of claims and have yet to provide proof of anything you have recently decided to post.
Example you refer to a BOLO, but cannot provide a copy of it. Therefore one must assume unless you work in PA as a police officer, then you really have no clue what it said. There was nothing even known the night of the murder except a man was dead and his house burned. What could a BOLO have said?
Example: You claimed the night of the murder they were looking for Harlow and Joe. According to the local paper in PA, as of Feb 8th 2007, the only name they knew was Danny. (Or Drake – I forget what the article in the paper said) The police claimed to have no other information at that time. So where the night of the murder was anything posted for Harlow and Joe? If you can tell me, I will look it up.
Example: you claim they knew Harlow and Joe the night of the murder and they became a fugitive the second they crossed the state line. Where is any evidence of this?
You claim they knew all about the murder that night and yet it still took months to make any arrest.
I have never once made any claims of them being with a client the night of the murder. Not once. I have not even heard of that until recently and that was from reading the different blogs.
Federal wants and warrants were there. Then show us they exist.
It has nothing to do with Harlow or Joe being clever. This has to do with you not providing facts and you want people to believe what you say as fact. This is nothing about being clever. This is about a time of prudence. Back up what you say. It would be simple. Post a copy of the warrant if such warrant exists. Like I said before if you can prove me wrong, I will say I’m wrong and apologize for disagreeing with you on this issue.
According to research, there must be a warrant before someone is considered a fugitive from justice. A person of interest is not the same as a fugitive.
The arrest warrant was not issued until 05-15-07. Explain how there was a fugitive warrant without an arrest warrant. Just what I thought, you cannot explain it.
Does it matter where they went? I know the answer to where they were as well. This is another thing that is consistent. You want to harp on things that make no difference whatsoever. Since there was not a fugitive warrant, they were free to travel anywhere they wanted to travel. And in the overall scheme of things, what difference does it make if they were in Hawaii or Florida, none whatsoever. So what is your point?
Things that are consistent, I still believe they are entitled to a fair trial and have the same rights that every American has and one of those rights is to be assumed innocent until proven guilty.
Hey Jakester--
Consistent I am and will be. Keep up the fiction if you want.
You two assholes have to reconcile the grifting con boobs both actively soliciting fake alibi witnesses following Kocis' murder--obviously, not guiltless, blameless, innocent behavior. But then, we are always suspicious of grifting cons who say one thing publicly and then threaten blackmail to get what they want.
An entire new set of witnesses for you and Elm to deal with. Oh and then Elm has to explain his post murder communications with the con boobs while they were on the run, fleeing prosecution for the murder.
You know when you two get yourself into a hole, you bring up the fair and impartial trial crap--LAST I CHECKED, THE GRIFTING CON BOOBS ARE SAFELY TUCKED IN CELLS AWAITING THEIR COURT TRIAL AS THE CONSTITUTION ALLOWS. So it appear your statements to the contrary that a vast conspiracy is sinking the grifting con boobs is as lame as your whinning about the opinions with justification that others have put up.
Rob,
Your problem is you are just too stupid to understand.
Your only consistent point is they are guilty. I understand your one and only consistent point. But then you want to spin the truth and facts into what you believe as truth and then post it as the facts of the case.
You keep making claims that I'm trying to prove they are innocent.
You still don’t even have that fact right.
It has been posted by Harlow that he wants a fair trial and not be judged before trial. Seems that is about all Harlow has said about the case itself. Yet you and Jim keep coming up with all the made up things that Harlow has said to prove him to be a liar. Only problem is he has not said anything, you and Jim have no clue as to what Harlow has actually said.
The fact of the matter is the DA better hope and pray he has some reliable witness to prove something in court. The DA certainly did not have a strong line up of witnesses at the preliminary. Granted he had a lot of witnesses at the preliminary, but what did they prove? A man was dead, a house was burned, there was an email and there was a ping at a cell phone tower, there was a knife by the body, the details of Bryan’s body, and even your truth telling Grant could not prove they actually done the crime. He said they only spoke vaguely of the crime. Seems that is what we are doing as well. We all have spoken vaguely of the crime. Since none of us was there, we don’t know what happened.
I would hate to think that if I was the DA that I had to depend on Sean and Grant to be the key witness in this case. I would hope and pray he can come up with something more than he had now.
Wonder how dependable these other witnesses are going to be since they are the clients of Harlow… By the way, was there even mention of other witnesses in the paper? Seems it said they wanted to prove the history of the two, this could be done by several means.
Now granted if they did approach someone for an alibi, they would need that one person in court there was no mention of a lot of other witnesses
Rob get at least one fact right…
I support the right to be assumed innocent until proven guilty in court, not by a couple assholes posting lies on line.
Hey Jakester--
We ran your IP. It is very similar to Bergeron's; however, the tip off as to the actual identity was contained in the alleged whereabouts. The IP you are using originates in La Jolla, CA. Not a terrific number of stakeholders there save one with an axe to grind. Hi Keith. Triangulation pays off.
Like I said I will match wits with you any day Dude.
Keith--
"I support the right to be assumed innocent until proven guilty in court, not by a couple assholes posting lies on line." Why would you need a fake identity? And mislead people into thinking you are posting from Florida when you are actually blogging from California.
Get one thing straight asswipe, I thoroughly support the court system, the grifting con boobs are entitled to their day in court, not attempts by a couple of whack jobs such as Elm and yourself to pervert justice.
Rob,
you seem to forget Harlow and Joe has not posted anything. Its not the Hilton they are in with the High Speed Wi Fi in every room.
So please point out excatly what Harlow and Joe has said.
Thanks..
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